0:00:03 - (Linda Habak): I'm Linda Habak, and this is Build Beautiful. This isn't just a podcast about design. It's about the people behind the work and the truth behind the journey. The quiet pivots, the bold decisions, the failures no one sees, and the moments that change everything. Each episode, I sit down with architects, designers, developers, artists, and creative entrepreneurs, not to talk about success, but about what it takes to get there.

0:00:33 - (Linda Habak): The process, the doubt, the grit, the heart. If you believe in creating with meaning and living a life with intention, then you'll feel right at home here. Welcome to Build Beautiful, where design meets depth. What does it mean to design honestly? Today, I'm joined by Tammy McOni, founder of Lot One Design and award nominee of the 2024 Interior Excellence Award. Tammy's work is soulful and quiet, never performative, always real.

0:01:11 - (Linda Habak): She creates spaces that feel lived in and loved, that hold you rather than impress you. In this conversation, we talk about the power of restraint, the role of intuition, and the quiet courage it takes to stay true to your creative voice, even when the industry expects polish and perfection. If you're someone who values meaning over noise and softness over spectacle, this one's for you. Because beauty isn't always loud.

0:01:39 - (Linda Habak): Sometimes it whispers. Here's my conversation with Tammy. Welcome.

0:01:47 - (Tammy Miconi): Thank you.

0:01:48 - (Linda Habak): So, so excited. So excited to have you and to have this conversation with you. I think we've had many conversations over the last. We've known each other now, a year and a half, and I think you always struck me as someone who had this quiet inner. Beauty is the way I can describe it. And it's almost like you're tussling with who you are, but, you know, you've got this incredible intuition, and I just. I always leave my conversations with you enlightened. And, yeah, I just. I think you're amazing and your work is beyond beautiful.

0:02:29 - (Tammy Miconi): Like, it's beyond beautiful.

0:02:31 - (Linda Habak): Honestly, I think you are. You don't see it. You just. You do the work honestly and you do it with such poise. But when I look at it critically, I just am blown away at the way your mind thinks. And I've said this to you before, like, you're a true creator.

0:02:50 - (Tammy Miconi): Thank you.

0:02:50 - (Linda Habak): So let's get into the conversation, and I want to really take you back to your childhood. Want to start there, because everything starts there, doesn't it?

0:02:59 - (Tammy Miconi): It does.

0:03:00 - (Linda Habak): Tell me, what kind of environment did you grow up in, and how do you see that showing up in who you are now and also in the work that you're doing now?

0:03:10 - (Tammy Miconi): Wow. I Don't know if we have enough time to answer that one.

0:03:13 - (Linda Habak): We may need a psychologist on board. No.

0:03:18 - (Tammy Miconi): So I'm one of four children. I'm third. I have a Lebanese background. So my parents immigrated to Australia when they were teenagers, met married here. We were all born here. Culturally, you know, growing up, our life just revolved around family and everyone. You know, doors are left open and people just come in and they're automatically welcomed and food is thrown on the table immediately. And, you know, it's just a big gathering all the time.

0:03:52 - (Tammy Miconi): So you really grow up not just with your own siblings and parents. Your extended family is. You grow up with them just as much. And we have a. Quite a big, extensive family here.

0:04:05 - (Linda Habak): Remind me how many.

0:04:07 - (Tammy Miconi): So my mom is the oldest of nine children.

0:04:09 - (Linda Habak): It's incredible.

0:04:10 - (Tammy Miconi): Yeah. And we gather once a year with them and there's over. There's over 100 cousins or something. Just. Yeah, it's ridiculous.

0:04:20 - (Linda Habak): Very typical of Lebanon. Lebanese.

0:04:22 - (Tammy Miconi): Yeah, it's. It's very typical. Not so big. On my dad's side, he was the youngest of four and his father died before he was born, so there were no more children on his side. And it's interesting because we were the oldest family on my mother's side, but the youngest family on my dad's side. And so, you know, the age differences. So different. Yeah. Yep. Both my parents, I would say, are quite creative. My dad was a writer. He wrote poetry and he actually used to perform and things like that. So I remember him writing all the time.

0:04:53 - (Tammy Miconi): He's no longer with us, but we still have a lot of his work. My mum, I don't think she really got to explore her creativity as much as she could have, but she's amazing when it comes to food. She's like one of those people that just, you know, it's like there's no food in the house and someone comes over and all of a sudden there's a table full of food.

0:05:16 - (Linda Habak): It's a feast.

0:05:17 - (Tammy Miconi): Yeah. And everything looks beautiful. Everything's immacul. Tastes amazing. Even all my cousins would say how your mum's tabooli is the best out of everybody. And it really was like, I'm not being biased, so she's. She does have that creative element.

0:05:33 - (Linda Habak): Her love language.

0:05:34 - (Tammy Miconi): It's so much love. Yeah, yeah. That spills out of her. They were really proud of our home, so it was always kept really well. You know, they did their own landscaping. I remember when we all did that together and I pulled a lot out of the creativity that my Family.

0:05:53 - (Linda Habak): So I know you're working on a book. Do you think that watching your father and his creative pursuits with writing poetry, do you even realize that that might be why you're looking at writing this book? It's a link and a connection to.

0:06:09 - (Tammy Miconi): Your father, who's not with us. You know, I never actually really thought about it like that. Like, his work was quite beautiful. I didn't really understand it as much as everybody else, but I just remember everybody always going on about how talented he was in that reg. I've never seen myself as a writer. Never. It's not something I ever thought that I would do. It was just more about this topic.

0:06:35 - (Linda Habak): Tell us, tell us about. Cause I think it really resonates with me. So I'd love for, I think, our listeners to understand and see and have context for what this is.

0:06:45 - (Tammy Miconi): Yeah, okay. It's a book of short stories. So every chapter is a short story about somebody, and it's about decisions that person made in their life based on what other people would expect or think of them as opposed to the decisions they would have made if they just were honest with themselves and did what they wanted to do. Growing up, you know, it was really emphasized that we should make sure that we were always respectful. And, you know, we can't shame the family and don't do this and don't say that and be this and be that, and you grow up. Not really.

0:07:22 - (Tammy Miconi): You're not even sure who you are. It's like, okay, I better make sure I say this and do this and not factor in what I want at all. You know, it's really around that. And I. It really stemmed from a moment that I had with my mum where I. I got angry with her about something. And she. I mean, my mom's the most loving person on the planet, has sacrificed everything for her children. And it was because of decisions that I had made that I was really upset about. And I was reflecting on why I had made those decisions. And then it came back to, you know, I said to my mum, you always said, you know, what will the people say if they see you do this or say this? And I don't want to think about that anymore. I want to think about what I want to do. And I said, I hate the way you raised us.

0:08:04 - (Tammy Miconi): I said that to her, which was very hurtful. And she said, well, I just raised you the way I was raised. When she said that, it dawned on me that I don't actually really know her either. Like, I was like, you're my Mum. But you're not. Like, who are you, actually? Who are you really? And so it just sort of snowballed from there. And I've been interviewing her and asking her lots of questions about her upbringing and her life, and that's been amazing, just doing that alone. I think even if I don't write the book, I've already gained so much out of doing that.

0:08:38 - (Linda Habak): In that process of interviewing your mum and learning about who she is, what have you learned about yourself? Or has it given you clarity? Now, looking back around some of the. You talked about sort of trying to work out the decisions you made and why you made them. Have you been enlightened in that process of.

0:09:02 - (Tammy Miconi): I've been more forgiving, yeah. To myself, actually, and to my mum.

0:09:07 - (Linda Habak): Because that's so pulling on the heartstrings.

0:09:12 - (Tammy Miconi): It's emotional because there's so much more understanding and compassion where that wasn't there before. It was like, why was it like this? But now I understand why it was like this and there's plenty of opportunity to change that. Not at an age or it's too late. My mum is not at an age where it is too late.

0:09:29 - (Linda Habak): Absolutely.

0:09:30 - (Tammy Miconi): And that. And I hope that this, you know, I do feel like this is already affecting her and some of the decisions that she's making and that. That was never the intention. It was to never change her, but it was just to understand her more. And I have. There's elements about her that I was never aware of. He was. She's always so proper and it's like, are you. You know.

0:09:51 - (Linda Habak): You know, give me an example. Give me an example of that.

0:09:57 - (Tammy Miconi): She told me a story about how she went to a boarding school her last year of schooling at age 11. She was told never to leave the boarding school. Her mother was very strict and anyway, she broke the rules one day and left and went and visited an auntie that was local and then she got in so much trouble for doing that.

0:10:17 - (Linda Habak): What a rebel.

0:10:17 - (Tammy Miconi): Yeah.

0:10:18 - (Linda Habak): So she went and saw her auntie.

0:10:19 - (Tammy Miconi): Yeah, that's right.

0:10:21 - (Linda Habak): But back then that was. Yeah. Rebellious.

0:10:24 - (Tammy Miconi): Yeah. She did little things like that. And I started laughing and I. I said, oh, you're a bit of a rebel, you know, and she's not a rebel at all. If you know my mum, she is so by the book.

0:10:33 - (Linda Habak): Yeah.

0:10:34 - (Tammy Miconi): The next day, I speak to her pretty much every day. I called her and said, oh, what did you do today? And she said, oh, I went shopping. And she never really goes shopping. And I said, what did you buy? And she said, I bought a dress. Never wears dresses. And she said, it had flowers on it. And I said, oh, does it have color on it? And she said, yes, it does. And, you know, my father had passed away, so culturally, you know, you don't really wear bright colors and things like that, and especially red. And I said, does it have red on it? And she said, yes. And I started. I said, who are you and what have you done with my mother? And she started laughing. And I said, you know, you sound like that rebel girl back at that boarding school. And she said to me, you know what? I feel like her today.

0:11:11 - (Tammy Miconi): And when she said that, I cried. We were just talking. She didn't know I was crying, but I cried when she said that. Cause I thought, oh, well, that conversation we had yesterday triggered something in you, and you've gone out and done this thing today that you wouldn't normally do.

0:11:26 - (Linda Habak): Absolutely. And maybe also you gave her permission to forgive herself a little bit, too, in that conversation.

0:11:33 - (Tammy Miconi): Well, she's been reflecting a lot about the choices her mother made with her and whether those choices were right. And now I'm having conversations with my kids, and I say to them, you know, I'm making choices because I think they're the best choices for you, but you have to tell me if they are not the best choices for you, because I'm doing what I think I know is best. But that may not be what's best for you.

0:11:57 - (Linda Habak): I love that because I talk a lot about, with friends and family around parenting. And even though this is not a parenting podcast we're going to talk about, I think it's important conversations to have, because when we're designers, we come as a whole person and a whole person. We're mothers. And so just to wrap this up in a little bow, I think, and I said this to my sister recently. We are conditioned to parent from a place of fear.

0:12:24 - (Linda Habak): And actually, we need to start learning to parent from a place of faith, like trust in ourselves. And it's really hard because there's just so much noise that we're freaking out as mothers. We're, like, freaking out about the world outside, about technology, about everything. And so we parent without even realizing it, from a place of fear. And absolutely, our mothers and their mothers would have done that.

0:12:48 - (Linda Habak): And I think we can change the trajectory. And I think you're doing that just by writing this beautiful book and having those conversations with your boys. You know, so now that we have a sense of who you are and where you've come from, I want to Come back to the creative unfolding. So tell me about what was that trigger moment or that point where you thought I need. Because I know design wasn't your first career.

0:13:15 - (Tammy Miconi): No.

0:13:16 - (Linda Habak): So tell me what you were doing. What was the moment that you just thought, I can't do this anymore. I have to, I have to pursue this because it's just. Just in my soul.

0:13:26 - (Tammy Miconi): Yeah.

0:13:26 - (Linda Habak): And what did that look like? What did that time look like for you?

0:13:30 - (Tammy Miconi): Okay, so my first career, I was a personal trainer. Not that you would know that looking at me now.

0:13:40 - (Linda Habak): You do. You're fabulous.

0:13:42 - (Tammy Miconi): I love the world of anatomy and physiology and health and wellness. I still do. Half the podcasts I listen to are all about health and wellness. Still love it. So I was a trainer and like, I enjoyed that. I did that for quite a while. But I got to a point where I felt like the process, despite people, you know, transforming and, you know, changing their lives, and I felt a lot of it was quite negative.

0:14:05 - (Tammy Miconi): And I'm. I'm a really positive person. And you know, as a personal trainer, you end up becoming also like a psychologist a lot of the time. And I was just having a moment one day where I felt like I couldn't progress more than where I had gotten to. And I was speaking to my boyfriend at the time who is now my husband, and I said, you know, I just need to do something else. And he said, well, what do you want to do? I said, I've always wanted to do interior design, but I've never felt confident enough to do it. And he said to me, well, why don't you just go and do work experience somewhere? It may not be as glamorous as you think it is. It may not be what you want to do. And So I called 50 odd designers that nobody would take me on. I found one in the end and went and did four days of experience.

0:14:45 - (Tammy Miconi): And it just kind of snowballed from there.

0:14:48 - (Linda Habak): So you did the work experience and then I know you went and studied in more design sectors.

0:14:52 - (Tammy Miconi): I did, yeah.

0:14:53 - (Linda Habak): And that was a five year course. Full time back then.

0:14:56 - (Tammy Miconi): Four days a week, four nights a week. It was considered part time, but it was four nights a week for five years.

0:15:02 - (Linda Habak): That is a huge commitment time.

0:15:04 - (Tammy Miconi): Yeah, huge. And. Cause I'd already gotten my foot in the door. Cause I ended up getting a job out of that four days work experience, even though I wasn't qualified at all.

0:15:11 - (Linda Habak): Tell me your story about that. Cause you've told me this previously, but I think this is. I love this approach and this inner strength that you had. So, yeah, let's touch on that.

0:15:22 - (Tammy Miconi): So it was at an architectural practice. There was an interiors division, and the senior associate there allowed me to do four days of work experience. And, you know, you're cleaning out the sample library and doing all the stuff like that sort of thing. My last day there, she was talking to one of the other designers about hiring someone. And I said, hire me? And she just laughed and said, you're not even qualified. Like, why would I, you know?

0:15:47 - (Linda Habak): And it's never stopped anyone.

0:15:48 - (Tammy Miconi): Well, what do you. What do you want this designer to do? And she said, well, the designer needs to draw, and you don't know how to draw. You've got no concept of using CAD or anything like that. And I said, well, I'm a. I'm a quick learner. And I said, just give me a go. What have you got to lose? And at the time, they were working on a project on William Street. It was a multi unit residential project, and they needed 37 typical bathrooms drawn. And one of the designers was gonna work over Christmas and do that. And she said, well, if you want, you can come in over that holiday period and you can learn how to draw and assist in drawing those 37 typical bathrooms. And if you do, I'll give you a job.

0:16:23 - (Tammy Miconi): And I did. And then she gave me a job.

0:16:26 - (Linda Habak): I love that story. I love that story. The fortitude, the courage, the, you know, that inner belief that I can do this, like I can do this. And I. And you did. And it's amazing.

0:16:38 - (Tammy Miconi): Yeah. So I couldn't let that go. Having my foot in the door, I couldn't let that go. So I worked and studied at the.

0:16:46 - (Linda Habak): Same time, and amazing opportunity. I love it.

0:16:48 - (Tammy Miconi): Yeah.

0:16:49 - (Linda Habak): So let's talk to. Now you. You started Lot One Design. Tell me about Lot one. What, where the name, where did it come from?

0:16:57 - (Tammy Miconi): Yep. So Lot one is named after the first house my husband and I lived in and renovated ourselves. So it was a tiny little house that really should have been knocked down. We had no money and we were renovating it ourselves. And we made so many mistakes, but we were so happy. We were so. I just, you know, that giddy sort of happy where he's just, you know, we had no bathroom. We. We didn't have a kitchen for two years. It was just ridiculous the way we were living.

0:17:28 - (Tammy Miconi): Everybody would walk in and shake their head. They had no idea what we were doing, but we were just so happy. And I just remember thinking, oh, everybody deserves to have their own little Lot, you know, and so for me, it's just like, well, lot one, that was ours. We had fun. We made mistakes, and it would be nice to help everybody else with their own little lot. So I guess that's. That's.

0:17:51 - (Linda Habak): Yeah, that's that story. I love that. And I can see that in your work, actually, and knowing and getting to know you. I can really see that. And how do you encapsulate that giddiness, that feeling of joy? How are you translating that in the jobs that you do now and the projects that you work on now?

0:18:10 - (Tammy Miconi): I think the most important and fundamental thing is connecting with the clients, because the projects are really about them. And it's amazing how many people come to you and they're so hesitant, and they hear all these nightmare stories about renovations and experiences that other people have had with designers. And, you know, the first thing I say is, look, this should be an enjoyable process for you. This should be fun.

0:18:34 - (Tammy Miconi): Most people only ever get to renovate once if they're lucky. So this should be. The whole process should be enjoyable. And it's all about you. This is your house, your space. You need to walk in and feel like the spaces understand you. They function for you. So it's really making it about them. And I think when a client feels like there's someone that really cares, that does actually want them to have that dream home and that home they've always had in their mind, then they just trust you and, you know, you work together until it's. Until it's done.

0:19:12 - (Linda Habak): Absolutely, yeah. How do you deal with situations or clients where. Or rather, have you been in a situation where the trust has been broken down a bit, and then how do you deal with that?

0:19:25 - (Tammy Miconi): Yeah, I have actually one particular client that I worked with. We had a great relationship, and the last project I worked on was great. And then things just sort of fell apart. The client felt like I. I don't know. That I wasn't really responding to them and that I didn't actually care. And I wasn't really sure where that was all coming from. I couldn't quite understand after working with them for so long. And I did try.

0:19:54 - (Tammy Miconi): Like, I. I feel like I really tried to respond to them feeling like I. I wasn't caring or I. You know, there were a couple of defects that they felt like I wasn't really attending to the way I should have, and I. I felt like I was. And, you know, I'd ask them, okay, what is it that I'm doing? What do you want me to do you know? And then I would do that. And it just. But it just didn't seem to somehow. I had lost that trust with them, but I didn't know whether it'd been so long. And maybe the way I'd handled a situation previously was different to the way I was handling it now. I'm a lot older now than I was when I first started working with them and.

0:20:32 - (Tammy Miconi): Or things happening in their life, maybe that just sort of propelled back onto me. I'm not sure. But that relationship did break down, and that was very difficult. I really struggled because for me, it's all about making sure that the client is happy when I've left, You know, I'm leaving. I need you to love this place when I go. And if you're. If there are things that are bothering you. I haven't. I haven't done my job.

0:20:56 - (Tammy Miconi): But I honestly felt like I had bent over backwards and I'd done everything I possibly could reflecting on it, because it did take me a while to sort of get over. It's like a big breakup.

0:21:08 - (Linda Habak): Yeah, well, we're emotional beings at the end of the day, connected emotionally.

0:21:13 - (Tammy Miconi): And I. I feel like now that was a really good thing that happened because I've lived my life concerned about what people think of me. Right. It's based on this book, so it's like, I can't have these people think that I'm really bad at what I do. And, you know, there's an element of being a real people pleaser and just wanting to make everybody else happy. And I realized that I'd gotten to a point where it was a detriment to myself.

0:21:37 - (Tammy Miconi): And then I realized, you know what? Maybe sometimes it doesn't matter how much you do, you're just not going to be able to make everybody happy. And that was a massive light bulb moment for me. And then it really changed the way I then worked on my future projects. That did have a really strong impact on, you know, what am I willing to do to myself or the sacrifices that I'm gonna make to myself and my family in order to please people.

0:22:09 - (Tammy Miconi): And then eventually it may mean nothing anyway. Even when you've spent 15 years or whatever it is, the time you've spent working with someone and a client and trying to, you know, do everything that you can. And look, I'm not saying I wasn't at fault. You know, maybe I was. To be honest, I don't even really know. I just know that it wasn't working for both of us. Well, it wasn't working for them. And then eventually it didn't really work for me.

0:22:38 - (Linda Habak): And so how do you pick yourself up? Because I know that feeling well, too. How do you pick yourself up? How do you forgive yourself? And then how do you move on and learn from that? Because you say it changed the way you sort of dealt with things in the future, like your future projects. Just unpack that for me a little bit.

0:22:56 - (Tammy Miconi): I know now that I can't make everybody happy, and I have to be okay with that. I have to be okay with doing the best that I can. And sometimes my best is not enough for some people, and that's okay. And that just means that that person or that client may not be the right person for me at this point in time. Now when I get to moments with clients that I have to stop and really think about the choice I'm going to make before I make it, I don't automatically just do exactly what the client wants me to do if I don't feel like that's.

0:23:32 - (Tammy Miconi): That's the right thing to do for myself or for everybody. I know that sounds really selfish saying that.

0:23:37 - (Linda Habak): No, not at all.

0:23:38 - (Tammy Miconi): But that, you know, that whole experience sort of brought me to that moment.

0:23:42 - (Linda Habak): You have to be in a good place as a designer because you're so up close and personal.

0:23:46 - (Tammy Miconi): Yeah.

0:23:47 - (Linda Habak): I have this saying that you're up in there undidraw. Like, you're literally that it's that intense that you have to be in a good place. You've got to bring your best self. And so the work is. Shows it. You know, it comes out in the work. If you're not in a good place.

0:24:03 - (Tammy Miconi): Well, it's all emotional. There's emotion.

0:24:06 - (Linda Habak): As much as we wanna put process in place, and there has to be process, but ultimately it's fueled by emotion.

0:24:12 - (Tammy Miconi): It is. It really is. I think there were a lot of factors with that particular client. And look, you know, I don't have anything bad to say about those clients. You know, they're lovely. They were beautiful people, and they were lovely to work with for that period of time. I just think maybe I'm just not. Not the right person for them anymore. And that's okay.

0:24:33 - (Linda Habak): You know, it's important. And one of the things I'm really passionate about talking about on this podcast is failure is almost, for me, more interesting than the success, because we are inundated with the pretty pictures and the perfect stories and the polish. But actually, you know, we want to get to know the person, and the person is built by not just good experiences, but the challenging ones, too.

0:24:58 - (Linda Habak): And so failure is. Is, I think, more important because that's where we grow as humans, as designers, as business owners. So thank you for sharing that story. I love it. I think that's even more interesting than everything else.

0:25:11 - (Tammy Miconi): No, let me tell you another story.

0:25:14 - (Linda Habak): Okay. I need to hear this.

0:25:16 - (Tammy Miconi): One particular project that I was engaged to work on, I worked on it for several years. There was a lot of stopping and starting with this particular project. And initially I did connect with the client really well. And once the project then started to. It got some legs and the processes all started. Their process was very different to my process. So there wasn't a lot of. Because of the nature of the project, because it took so long to kind of get it off the ground from an architectural perspective with the DAs and approvals and things like that. And the client had moved out.

0:25:52 - (Tammy Miconi): They just wanted to start construction immediately. And so. So demolition was happening and we hadn't even started really sort of designing in detail. They didn't seem to mind about that. They felt that, oh, yep, you know, if things were sort of, we'll design as we go, that can be quite challenging. We would draw something up, they would approve in terms of a configuration, it would be built. Then they would walk in and not feel like there was enough space, or then they'd want it changed. And then we'd redesign and do again.

0:26:22 - (Tammy Miconi): And for some reason, there was just one particular space that we just seemed to not be able to get right for them. Even though we felt like it was right, the builders felt it was right. It felt good. Just didn't seem to tick their box. And they weren't very visual. They had to stand in the space to really understand whether it worked for them or not. And then I feel like the clients started to lose faith in us because we weren't really getting what they were wanting.

0:26:50 - (Tammy Miconi): But it's funny, you know, I don't really know if the client knew exactly what they wanted either. I just think every time they. Even though it was just timber framework, it wasn't even really a space that was resolved. They just felt like it just wasn't big enough or wasn't right enough. And then eventually the relationship sort of broke down because we just weren't giving them what it is that they wanted. But I'm not really sure if they knew exactly what they wanted or if what they wanted could be achieved with the envelope we were working in.

0:27:21 - (Linda Habak): And what did you learn from that? How did you deal with that?

0:27:26 - (Tammy Miconi): Well, I Mean, while we were in it, it was very much, look, I can give this another go and I can continue to try to, but I felt like we were just not on the same level. I think ultimately, you know, we design with so much honesty, and I feel like there may not have been. The essence of the design wasn't really coming from within them. It was more about what will the world see? Yeah, I guess so. It really resonated back.

0:27:55 - (Tammy Miconi): Well, I don't know if that's how it was, but that was my perception.

0:27:58 - (Linda Habak): That's really interesting if I can unpack that, because you come from a place of such deep honesty and the way you approach design and life. Do you think that triggered something in you? Because maybe they were doing it. Yes, it did what it looked like to the outside world, but you design from a place of what it does for me here in my heart and.

0:28:22 - (Tammy Miconi): What it does for you functionally. And this works. Like, for me, this was working. This was meeting your brief. This was ticking every box. But for some reason, it just wasn't. And I'd never experienced that. I've been designing for a really long time, and to get to a point where you'd come up with five different configurations and none of them were right, it's like. And then it almost felt like we were then becoming a drafting team. You know, the client was saying, draw this. This is what I want.

0:28:54 - (Tammy Miconi): That's not really how we work.

0:28:55 - (Linda Habak): How did it make you feel?

0:28:57 - (Tammy Miconi): I just felt like I wasn't the right designer for this person. Yeah, yeah. They needed to find someone that, you know, they could take the design lead and tell that designer what to do, and that designer would produce what they wanted. And that's essentially, you know, a draftsperson. You know, it's not. We were no longer aligned, I think.

0:29:16 - (Linda Habak): In how do you deal with that situation. Did you see that, or did you both agree to kind of part ways?

0:29:24 - (Tammy Miconi): Yes, it was just agreeing that we weren't right for each other, essentially. Yeah. And that's okay. And there was no regrets working on that project as well. Like, I really enjoyed working on that project for the time that we did. And I hope they do achieve everything that they are wanting to achieve. I think the point there is to ensure before you start the process of working with someone that you're compatible, that you will connect, because not every designer is going to be the right person for you, you know, so you've really got to find the right client. The client's really got to find the right designer for them. And that's okay. You know, it's not. You don't have to be.

0:30:07 - (Tammy Miconi): You're not going to be the right person, the right designer for every single person that comes along, most definitely. And, you know, like I said previously, it's a big deal. So the client's got to get this right, the designer's got to get it right. And where it falls apart, it's best to part ways. And then, you know, the client can either run with it themselves or try and find another designer that aligns with them a little more than you do.

0:30:31 - (Linda Habak): And so how did the business change or how did you approach the process of working with clients? Because I know there was a pivotal change in terms of your process and how you approached your relationship with clients and the work.

0:30:49 - (Tammy Miconi): It was really delving deep into that initial meeting where you're asking them why they want to do this. What is it they're hoping to achieve? What is their history? What do they want from this space? And really, for me, it's really feeling like their response just comes from the heart. It's a really deep response. It's not a superficial response.

0:31:15 - (Linda Habak): And so that's the client's perspective. What changed in you after having that experience?

0:31:20 - (Tammy Miconi): That it's okay that you're not the right person for every person. You know, you can't please everyone, and you can't.

0:31:29 - (Linda Habak): Was that hard? Was that a hard lesson to learn?

0:31:32 - (Tammy Miconi): Yes, that was very hard. Because, you know, going back to my upbringing where you want to please everybody and you want to do what's right for everybody, that's a hard pill to swallow when someone feels like you're not the right person for them, when you've bent over backwards and done everything you can and you've tried so hard, and. And it's still not working, and you don't know what to do, and it's, you know, it's almost to your own detriment.

0:31:56 - (Tammy Miconi): And so for me, it's accepting sooner rather than later that, hey, maybe I'm not the right person for you. And that's okay.

0:32:03 - (Linda Habak): That's okay. Yeah, absolutely. So let's talk about your practice. I love how you talk about concept and doing that concept ideation. I'd love for you to share with our listeners what your approach is. That conceptual stage.

0:32:21 - (Tammy Miconi): Yeah, so we. I mean, we start off by once. Once we're engaged, the next thing is to really understand the client. So we will do a walkthrough at their place, really understand what they. What it is that they love about it. What they don't like about it, what's working, what's not working, all the existing conditions, where the house is, architectural elements, history, how they live, what their family's like.

0:32:47 - (Tammy Miconi): And then we send them quite an extensive questionnaire as well that they fill in and send back to us. And then we put together a one page document that is the design direction and that's based on everything. The home, the people, what they love, what they don't love. And we revert back to this one document every time we are making a decision on the project. It makes the project very intentional. We don't make decisions just because, ah, that looks good or I've seen that and whatever. And never every decision is always reverted back, back to this concept direction. And it has to relate back to that.

0:33:33 - (Tammy Miconi): It just means that the entire project is, yeah, Intentional, holistic. It all makes sense. You can walk from one part of the house to the next and it feels right. Even if you can't articulate why it feels right and why it's good, it just is. And it hangs together. That's right. And it's for every detail. It's from the largest, from space planning all the way through to how it feels when you're trying to open your cutlery drawer. What does that look like? What is that detail?

0:34:07 - (Tammy Miconi): Does that detail go back to that design direction concept?

0:34:11 - (Linda Habak): And do you use images and words to come up with that?

0:34:15 - (Tammy Miconi): We do.

0:34:16 - (Linda Habak): What does that one page look like?

0:34:18 - (Tammy Miconi): Yeah, so there are words, but they're just, you know, maybe four lines of words that are articulating what we're trying to do. And then the images below correspond with that. But the images aren't necessarily tangible. They're not of spaces. They're more of like a feeling or a detail or something like that.

0:34:38 - (Linda Habak): What sort of feedback are you asking from the client at that point?

0:34:43 - (Tammy Miconi): Yeah, that's a good question. Because clients look at that and they say, I'm not really sure what you want me to say.

0:34:54 - (Linda Habak): What are you.

0:34:54 - (Tammy Miconi): Cause it's very concept. Yeah. So they look at that and they don't know. They're like, yeah, it looks great. Like that's really it. If they can look at that and say, yep, I think I connect with that. I'm not really sure because I don't know what you mean. Like, what does that actually mean when you're talking about my kitchen? It's like, we're gonna get to that, but I just want you to look at this and tell me if this feels right. And yeah, that's All I want is a yes, it does.

0:35:20 - (Linda Habak): Yeah.

0:35:21 - (Tammy Miconi): And then we can. And then you run from that.

0:35:23 - (Linda Habak): That's amazing.

0:35:24 - (Tammy Miconi): Yeah.

0:35:25 - (Linda Habak): Then in terms of that building that relationship and trust, do you have a moment in that process where you go, yeah, the trust is there because I think the design process, it's so intimate, it's so emotional, but it hinges on trust between designer and the client. So is there a magic moment in that relationship timeline where you just go, that's it.

0:35:50 - (Tammy Miconi): The trust is. Yes. We usually have to nail that the very first time we issue something. Something, regardless of how small that is. If it's just, oh, look, we've replanned your master bedroom now. Are you happy with that? It's at that moment that the trust is built and locked in. And you can see it. You can see where they may have been a little hesitant previously. And then the moment you give them that first tangible thing, they are totally.

0:36:17 - (Tammy Miconi): They're all in. They're invested.

0:36:19 - (Linda Habak): I love it. It's that touch point, isn't it? Because every touch point is an opportunity to harness that trust, to build that trust. And. Yeah.

0:36:28 - (Tammy Miconi): And even with their correspondence back to that, you know, they'll be, you know, sometimes they'll be apologetic, like, I'm sorry, I'm not really sure I don't want. It's like, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. Flood me with information. This is like making it okay for them to completely just send it all through and you can text me, you can call me, you can everything, even if it just pops up in your head randomly, make sure you let me know. Like.

0:36:52 - (Tammy Miconi): Like just letting them know that it's okay. This is your place. Like, you've got to make sure I'm fully understanding what it is that you want and making them feel okay about that. Like, they're not bothering me. You know what I mean?

0:37:03 - (Linda Habak): Love it. You're just completely holding space for them.

0:37:06 - (Tammy Miconi): Totally. It is about them.

0:37:08 - (Linda Habak): Which does mean that your cup has to be full when you're serving.

0:37:12 - (Tammy Miconi): Definitely.

0:37:13 - (Linda Habak): And so that's that fine balance of. Of. Yeah.

0:37:16 - (Tammy Miconi): I think it's wrong to take on a project if you're not going to give it that 100%. And for your cup to be full every time you speak to them, they're trusting you is such a big thing. It's.

0:37:27 - (Linda Habak): It's a huge, enormous responsibility.

0:37:29 - (Tammy Miconi): It is. And so you've. You've got to be prepared to really make them feel like it is a priority to you. It has to be a priority to you or you shouldn't you shouldn't take it off on. No, absolutely no.

0:37:43 - (Linda Habak): I want to spend a minute or a moment talking about being a business person and running a business. Like, let's switch gears, because I think you're a rock star, obviously, at the client relationship and the output. I mean, it's. For me, I look at the work and I just think it's mind blowing.

0:38:01 - (Tammy Miconi): Yeah, you're too kind.

0:38:02 - (Linda Habak): But I know. And this is the conversation I have with lots of designers around running a business.

0:38:08 - (Tammy Miconi): Yep.

0:38:08 - (Linda Habak): Because we have to wear many hats. So talk me through that. Tell me your perspective on that. But also then maybe some of the challenges and the successes, like, I just want to unpack that side of things.

0:38:22 - (Tammy Miconi): Yeah. The business side of things. That's my short, good old business of design stuff. You know, when I started, I didn't even. I didn't even know if this would work. My husband was very encouraging. He was like, you need to go out on your own. And I. And I was. I don't. I was like, where am I gonna get work from? This isn't gonna work. You know, and he's like, just give it. Just give it six months. What's the worst that could happen?

0:38:44 - (Tammy Miconi): You don't do well or you don't get any work. You can get a job somewhere else. You've got so much experience under your belt that that'll be fine. And I thought, when he said that, I thought, okay, if I've got a moment where I can try and it doesn't work, and I'll be okay. So, you know, the first few years, the first several years was really just about the grind that was just taking on any project that came in.

0:39:04 - (Tammy Miconi): There was. It was. I also had two little boys, you know, that were in. One had started kindy, the other was in year two, like, really young. So they.

0:39:13 - (Linda Habak): For context, how long has the business been in operation for?

0:39:16 - (Tammy Miconi): 2014 is when I started. Jan, 2014. Yeah. Running a business, per se, was not the priority. It was like, I've got two kids. I'm gonna do this on the side and take on whatever I can. And for a few years, it was very much that. Then I got quite busy and had to hire someone who then worked off my dining table. It was hilarious. And we had samples all over the floor and, you know, as you do. But it was still really just about working on whatever came through. There was no real process of, right, we need to go out and get more work, and how are we going to do this? And how are we going to Build a brand or how. There was really none of that. It was just very.

0:39:55 - (Tammy Miconi): And look, financially it wasn't doing very well. It hasn't financially, to be honest, it hasn't really done well for most of those years. You know, it's not like a massive money maker or anything. And I honestly, I don't know if it ever really will be like it. Currently it is. Currently I'm doing well. There's profit being made, I'm paying myself, you know, but how long that's going to last, I don't know. It's so up and down, you know, you're flooded with work one minute and then the next minute there's. There's nothing.

0:40:25 - (Linda Habak): So it's famine and feast, isn't it? It can be a bit like that.

0:40:29 - (Tammy Miconi): So I do feel like I've never really, really looked at it properly. Like I am running a business. It was just, you know, taking on work when it sort of came in. That's different now. Now I feel like, yeah, I don't want to continue doing this unless this is going to be viable and successful. So I have met with. I've tried a few different business coaches and they were all interesting. Yeah. I mean, I had one who completely shattered me, basically, who said, I don't even know why you're bothering me.

0:41:00 - (Tammy Miconi): You should just wrap things up because you're not making any money. And who is this person?

0:41:06 - (Linda Habak): I need to know them.

0:41:08 - (Tammy Miconi): Yeah, Well, I left crying and oh, my God, he said to me, actually, what he said to me was, this isn't a business. You're just like a glorified employee. That's what he said to me. I just left thinking, that's terrible. That's not what I want this to be. I was so offended. But actually thinking about it now, he was right, you know, like, I. I wasn't running a business and so now I want to run a business.

0:41:34 - (Linda Habak): Love that, that resolve. Sometimes the truth hurts, right?

0:41:37 - (Tammy Miconi): Yeah, it hurt. And I was so offended, I was like, but for him, he was so matter of fact, he's like, but this isn't viable. You're wasting your time. Why are you wasting your time? And I was like, but I love what I do. But that didn't matter to him because he was so the opposite to me, you know, he was very, you know, looking at profit and loss and going, well, there's no point to this, do something else else.

0:41:59 - (Tammy Miconi): But I don't want to do anything else.

0:42:00 - (Linda Habak): I think it also comes back to goals, right? Like, what is. What is the goal and what is the outcome. And I think the thing that people get unstuck around is when you're not sure what you are actually in it for. And be clear about emotional goals, but financial goals, because then if you have the financial goal, you can work back from that to work out the structure and how you're going to achieve it. So maybe that experience was just a highlight like that for you to go.

0:42:28 - (Tammy Miconi): Definitely. I think all the negative experiences, when you sit back and look at them, they are so pivotal.

0:42:33 - (Linda Habak): Yeah, they're the growth moments.

0:42:35 - (Tammy Miconi): Totally. Like, you really, really see that when you're out of them. You don't really see it much when you're in them.

0:42:40 - (Linda Habak): No, it's anguish when you're in it. It's when you get out of it and hindsight and. Yeah.

0:42:46 - (Tammy Miconi): My mom always says, don't hate something that might be good for you. She says that all the time. It's like, I think of her when. And, you know, I've come out of them and it's like, oh, yeah, yeah, you were right.

0:42:56 - (Linda Habak): Absolutely. So then you've got this newfound view and vision on what does the next 10 years look like for lot one or the next iteration look like?

0:43:07 - (Tammy Miconi): It's very ambitious.

0:43:10 - (Linda Habak): I love that. My favorite word. Do you feel like you want to share or we can leave it and we can see it all unfold, but give me a sense of where you're at in terms of just, you know, it doesn't have to be specific, but just your aspirations around what it might look like or more. So how do you want it to feel?

0:43:31 - (Tammy Miconi): I mean, I definitely want to continue this current success that I'm on right now. I feel like right now it's going really well, and I want to. If I can try and avoid the lulls. I don't know if that's possible, but I'd love to get to a position where we just have inquiries coming in all the time. We've put some beautiful work out there that's resonating with a lot of people, and they're really feeling what we do and want to be part of that.

0:43:58 - (Tammy Miconi): I want to extend it into furniture design. We've designed some pieces that got a little bit of attention, and it's something that I really love doing. So I think having a product arm to the business might be nice.

0:44:10 - (Linda Habak): I love that because I know you're deeply creative. So talk to me more about sort of the product design part of this. What's the springboard? Or how do you imagine that you're going to sort of build this arm?

0:44:25 - (Tammy Miconi): Well, I have to start by designing a range.

0:44:28 - (Linda Habak): But are you seeing it? Is it something you could do as a collaboration with?

0:44:32 - (Tammy Miconi): Definitely, I think. I think a bit of both. I think I can see it. See some things as collaborations, for sure, but I. But I do feel like we could create our own things as well. Just pieces that are beautiful, sustainable pieces that people invest in for life, not something that's bought for five years and then replaced. I'd love it all to be here, made in Australia, using Australian materials and those sorts of things. So from a sustainability perspective, but also not ridiculously expensive.

0:45:04 - (Tammy Miconi): So it's a tough ask.

0:45:06 - (Linda Habak): Yeah, that's a difficult formula to tell.

0:45:09 - (Tammy Miconi): I mean, I have started the process of designing some things and I think it's a matter of just now working out how to get those things made and what that sort of looks like and beautiful. Yeah.

0:45:18 - (Linda Habak): I'm very excited to see how that all unfolds for you because, yeah, I think the intention is so beautiful behind not just the way you approach your client relationships, but the way you approach life, the way you approach parenting, the way you approach creating. It's such an honest, raw, intuitive, real. Like I said before, I think we're in this world where we're just bombarded with shiny, shiny, shiny, and I think it's so refreshing to have these raw, honest conversations.

0:45:52 - (Linda Habak): I want to end off this amazing conversation with a question. It's our signature question for the podcast. What does Build Beautiful mean to you?

0:46:04 - (Tammy Miconi): Build Beautiful. Beautiful means building with honesty and restraint. I think something that may look beautiful but doesn't resonate with you or doesn't function how you want it to will not be beautiful for very long. So when you do create things that speak to you and make you feel a certain way, I think the intent there would be that it was. Would. It'd be timeless. You know, it'd have its longevity element to it, and I think that's really important as well.

0:46:39 - (Tammy Miconi): Creating and creating for life.

0:46:42 - (Linda Habak): Tammy, this has been a pleasure. Thank you so much for coming.

0:46:46 - (Tammy Miconi): Thank you. I feel so honoured. Thank you.

0:46:49 - (Linda Habak): I'm honored to have you. So great. Thank you. Thank you for listening to Build Beautiful. If this conversation resonated with the you, I'd love it if you'd follow the show, leave a review or share it with someone who's building something meaningful. It matters more than you know. Follow us on Instagram. Build Beautiful podcast. Until next time. Keep creating with intention and together we build beautiful.