0:00:00 - (Linda Habak): Foreign I'm Linda Habak and this is Build Beautiful. This isn't just a podcast about design. It's about the people behind the work and the truth behind the journey. The quiet pivots, the bold decisions, the failures no one sees, and the moments that change everything. Each episode, I sit down with architects, designers, developers, artists and creative entrepreneurs not to talk about success, but about what it takes to get there.

0:00:33 - (Linda Habak): The process, the doubt, the grit, the heart. If you believe in creating with meaning and living a life with intention, then you'll feel right at home here. Welcome to Build Beautiful. Where design meets depth in property. Numbers often take center stage. Square meter rates, sales prices, market trends. But for Jen Sinclair, the real story is never just in the figures. It's in the way sunlight spills into a room at 4pm it's the quiet rhythm of a hallway designed for bare feet and laughter.

0:01:12 - (Linda Habak): It's in the spaces that hold our lives with both elegance and ease. An architect by training and a property developer by instinct, Jen leads comma projects from her home on the Gold Coast. Her debut development Layer, didn't just set a local record, it set a new standard for what thoughtful human centered development can be. She designs with context, intuition, and a deep belief that a home should feel as good as it looks.

0:01:41 - (Linda Habak): In this conversation, we'll explore how she carved her space in a male dominated industry, what it really takes to start in property development, and why generosity isn't just a side project. It's something you can build into the foundation of your career. This is a story about creating with conviction and what happens when you stop asking for permission and start building on purpose. Welcome to my conversation with Jen.

0:02:08 - (Linda Habak): Jen, hello.

0:02:10 - (Jenn Sinclair): Hi, Linda, welcome. Thank you so much for having me. Seriously, such an honor.

0:02:15 - (Linda Habak): It's such a pleasure. All the way down from the the Gold Coast, I'm so happy to have you.

0:02:20 - (Jenn Sinclair): Yes.

0:02:21 - (Linda Habak): When I was researching for Build Beautiful, I knew that one of the areas that I wanted to have conversations around was property development, particularly women in property development. And it's much harder than you would think it is to find women who are doing property development. And so you came across my research and I reached out to you and you kindly said yes. So it's so great to be able to talk to you.

0:02:47 - (Linda Habak): I think perhaps we go back to where it all started for you. You grew up in Hong Kong.

0:02:53 - (Jenn Sinclair): Yes, I did.

0:02:54 - (Linda Habak): Hong Kong is one of my favorite places in the world. Our best friends lived there for 10 years, so we've been many, many times. Tell me about what growing up in Hong Kong was like for you, what did you learn around, you know, what did you learn about the built form and how did that inform your choice to go into a career in architecture and construction?

0:03:13 - (Jenn Sinclair): Yeah, yeah. So I was born in Hong Kong and when I was three, we moved to the central coast, actually over here in Australia. Yeah, My grandparents had already made the move back when I was born and so we followed when I was three and I had to learn English and, you know, learn the new lifestyle. And at 6 years of age we moved back to Hong Kong and so I had to relearn Chinese, start school and my parents said I really struggled with a whole different language and yeah, to the point where they were almost going to homeschool me.

0:04:01 - (Linda Habak): Yeah.

0:04:01 - (Jenn Sinclair): But then I guess I just turned, turn around the corner and yeah, I managed. And by year two, second grade primary school, the schools over there, they rank you every term. It's very competitive academically and so came home with a report card and I.

0:04:24 - (Linda Habak): Was ranked 15th out of how many?

0:04:27 - (Jenn Sinclair): Out of 30.

0:04:28 - (Linda Habak): Okay.

0:04:29 - (Jenn Sinclair): Yeah. So, you know, sitting in the middle, that's not too bad. But my teacher said to my mum, jen can do better. And when my mother told that told me that I was just something in me as a, as a seven year old, something in me just like, oh, I'll show them.

0:04:48 - (Linda Habak): I love that determination.

0:04:50 - (Jenn Sinclair): Yeah. And so, yeah, tried really hard. And the next term I ranked third. And eventually by grade four, I managed to get into the smart class, I guess the top class of the grade. Unfortunately, every term I was ranked last. So I was like, I felt, you know, I was the dumbest out of the smart class. But I think, you know, even then, like very early on it was shaped in me, you know, that perseverance, that drive to just always do the best I can, no matter what that looked like.

0:05:30 - (Jenn Sinclair): And when I was consistently ranked last in class in grade four, I think I just realized, you know what, it's not about competition. You, you run your own race. I think that's what I learned and I still carry that through to today. Like healthy competition and being inspired by what other people are doing are really, really great. But at the end of the day, you're only competing against yourself and doing your own race. And that has always, yeah, to this day, like I always go back to. It's like, stop looking around.

0:06:09 - (Jenn Sinclair): Sometimes you just got to put your blinkers on. Right. And get what you need to do done.

0:06:14 - (Linda Habak): Absolutely.

0:06:15 - (Jenn Sinclair): Rather than focusing on all the noises and distractions out there because yeah, really pull you into Wrong directions.

0:06:24 - (Linda Habak): Absolutely. Yeah. And so growing up in Hong Kong, obviously it's, it's high rise city, there's just high rises everywhere. Did where did that interest in architecture come from? Was that something that was founded there or.

0:06:38 - (Jenn Sinclair): Yeah, not, not consciously back then. Looking back at it now, there's only so many things you can do in Hong Kong, I guess growing up on the weekends. So my dad used to always take us to a lot of open homes where these are like big development towers throwing on a huge event for as their open home, you know, so there were a lot of family friendly activities with, you know, face painting, balloons and stuff. So I guess my dad, with two young girls in Hong Kong, you're probably here looking for something to do.

0:07:17 - (Jenn Sinclair): So yeah, we. I just always remember walking through these big brand new developments and looking at the ceiling details and all the lights that they've put in, all these like starry lights in the cinema rooms and the cornice details. Yeah, I was always quite observant. But then also like growing up, like I would sit on my windowsill and just watch all the buildings be constructed around me level by level.

0:07:45 - (Jenn Sinclair): And it used to always just fascinate me. Like I would sit there for hours just watching all the construction workers walking around and like, and bamboo scaffolding and.

0:07:57 - (Linda Habak): I love the bamboo scaffolding.

0:07:59 - (Jenn Sinclair): It's. It's crazy, isn't it? And yeah, just being really fascinated by construction in general. And yeah, my uncle always talked about property investing and so yeah, naturally I think I just grew up thinking that's what we do. Like the goal in life is to get a good education, go to university, get a secure job and then buy property. That's just what I naturally thought. So when I, I had always thought that I would be a vet because I loved animals so much. Still do.

0:08:35 - (Linda Habak): Yeah.

0:08:35 - (Jenn Sinclair): But when I went and did my year 10 work experience at an actual vet, it was a horrible experience. And so then I changed out of my biology and chemistry subjects and the only thing I could think of that I could see myself doing was maybe design some buildings and design some beautiful houses. Yeah, so yeah, so that's when I went down the architecture route and.

0:09:02 - (Linda Habak): And what did it feel like when you started studying architecture? Because by this stage you were back in Australia.

0:09:07 - (Jenn Sinclair): Yes, yes, yes. So, yeah, so that's right. So when I was six years old, moved back to Hong Kong, relearned Chinese and then the goal, my parents goal was always to move us back to Australia for the long term. So in year five I got put into an international school where I had to relearn English again.

0:09:36 - (Linda Habak): Wow.

0:09:37 - (Jenn Sinclair): Yeah. So I think, yeah, like that constant change back in my early years, I think that's what I was meaning in terms of it shaping me to have to be adaptable, to be resilient and just persevere. Like just so many life changes, country moves and. Yeah. So I moved over to the Gold coast and started high school here. Okay. And then did uni in Brisbane and. Yeah, so the, the architecture course itself was arty farty, really.

0:10:14 - (Linda Habak): Okay.

0:10:16 - (Jenn Sinclair): It was fun. It was a lot of like. It is what you hear about architecture students. They're sleeping, there's a lot of projects. But I think part of that was because we did have to work three days.

0:10:31 - (Linda Habak): As part of the degree.

0:10:31 - (Jenn Sinclair): As part of the degree. This was back when I was studying, I think. I'm pretty sure the degree has changed now where they don't need that work experience. But it was in the work experience in the real life, you know, daily in the office. That's when I learned absolutely everything.

0:10:51 - (Linda Habak): How to apply everything.

0:10:53 - (Jenn Sinclair): Yeah, exactly. Like just your standard ceiling heights, door heights, window widths and openings. Like, I didn't learn any of that through my uni projects. But you know, like, not to discount the purpose of it, like, it was. I was actually just, I pulled out my final year uni projects and showed my 8 year old the other day and he was just fascinated and I was like, wow, did I really do all of that? Create that? Yeah, I draw that by hand.

0:11:22 - (Linda Habak): Well, that's, I mean that's the best skill, Right, that you can have, is to draw by. I, I actually, I had an architect on the podcast, Eva Marie Prin from Studio Prinia. She's an amazing architect. Architect. And she said the best advice she could give is to learn to draw by hand. Like actually draw by hand. And I, I do think there is something important for architects in particular, especially in this day and age of AI, but we'll come to AI, so let's kind of.

0:11:54 - (Linda Habak): Well, before we move into sort of your journey into property development, was there anything in your, your culture or your family values that really kind of pulled you into that direction of property development? Like, at what point did you always know that was going to be the career you wanted to move into?

0:12:13 - (Jenn Sinclair): No, definitely not. I think when I decided to change from vet.

0:12:19 - (Linda Habak): Yes.

0:12:20 - (Jenn Sinclair): Veterinary science to architecture, I think in my mind it was just always more, oh, it'd be nice to make some pretty buildings just to finish, get through high school and have some sort of Uni degree And I think growing up in Hong Kong, property development to me meant, you know, blocks and blocks and blocks of large scale high rise buildings built set on the side of a hill kind of thing. Yeah. So I think that was always like a wild dream too. One day. Wouldn't it be fun too if I was doing that?

0:13:05 - (Linda Habak): Yeah.

0:13:06 - (Jenn Sinclair): Yeah. So I think growing up. Yeah. The term property development was always so unreachable.

0:13:15 - (Linda Habak): Yes.

0:13:15 - (Jenn Sinclair): Yeah. But it wasn't daunting though in saying that I think because yeah, my uncle, my dad like property talks were always in the family.

0:13:27 - (Linda Habak): Yeah.

0:13:28 - (Jenn Sinclair): So yeah, it was never like I can never achieve that.

0:13:33 - (Linda Habak): That's amazing.

0:13:34 - (Jenn Sinclair): Yeah.

0:13:35 - (Linda Habak): So your first development wasn't really planned. You renovated a meth damaged house, is that right? So tell me about, tell me about that, that whole experience and why did you buy this house? Was it that you just got it for rock bottom price or.

0:13:52 - (Jenn Sinclair): Yeah, well, my husband and I had done a couple of cosmetic renovations prior to this development, obviously coming from architecture and I was always into renovating and I guess. Yeah. Our valuing properties and so when my husband and I. So what happened with. Okay, I feel like. Yeah, maybe like a bit of more of a timeline would make.

0:14:25 - (Linda Habak): Give us some content. Okay, great, let's go back then.

0:14:29 - (Jenn Sinclair): Yeah. Basically I finished uni and didn't actually really enjoy the architecture course in itself.

0:14:40 - (Linda Habak): Okay.

0:14:41 - (Jenn Sinclair): It was a six year course and by year four, fourth year into uni was really. I just didn't like it was almost going to quit but I thought to myself, no, I've come this far, what's. What's another two years to just finish the course. I think in the back of my mind it was also like my family, my parents haven't. Didn't teach me to quit. You know, you try and finish what you start. And so I stuck it out, did my six years and I'm glad I did. I think it was more working in the office that was more interesting.

0:15:21 - (Linda Habak): Yeah.

0:15:22 - (Jenn Sinclair): But then when my husband and I got married, we kind of on the side somehow started a software company.

0:15:31 - (Linda Habak): Somehow.

0:15:32 - (Jenn Sinclair): Yeah. Which is how. Yeah, which is the field that my husband is in. He's. He's a software developer.

0:15:40 - (Linda Habak): Right.

0:15:41 - (Jenn Sinclair): And he got asked to develop this code, which we very quickly realized a lot of other churches needed to use as well. And so then it kind of just blew up from there and.

0:16:00 - (Linda Habak): As in the software.

0:16:01 - (Jenn Sinclair): Yeah, the software company. Company.

0:16:04 - (Linda Habak): Wow.

0:16:04 - (Jenn Sinclair): There was a lot of need for it and all of a sudden it just grew really quickly and were you.

0:16:09 - (Linda Habak): Working with him in this.

0:16:11 - (Jenn Sinclair): Yeah. So naturally. So our plans were always to do 12 month backpacking after we got married. And so we still did that, but. But while we were traveling, it grew really quickly. And so we came home, we had one staff on back home while we were traveling, but we just knew that we had to be home to keep this growing. And so naturally, I just didn't go back into architecture.

0:16:42 - (Linda Habak): Yeah.

0:16:43 - (Jenn Sinclair): And during that year of backpacking, that was also when I went back to Vietnam for the second time to build. To do a second volunteer build.

0:16:58 - (Linda Habak): Tell me about that, because I have read in, when I was doing the deep dive research on you that you did philanthropic work and you helped build these homes in Vietnam, in the Philippines. So tell me about that. And how did that sort of inform your journey as well?

0:17:14 - (Jenn Sinclair): Yes. So, yeah, for some reason, I've always had a heart for developing nations and. Yeah. And so I volunteered to do a few house builds in Vietnam and Philippines. The first one was just fresh out of graduation, uni graduation. I thought, my friend and I, we thought we'd do a little trip. So we did a three, four week building trip in Vietnam. And the experience was amazing. Absolutely amazing, where firsthand we got to experience literally, like how houses were being built. Like back to the foundations where we had to hand mix the concrete.

0:18:05 - (Jenn Sinclair): Yes. Hand mix with shovels. So they would deliver the sand, the aggregates, the cement on the street. And we'd have to wheelbarrow them down the narrow alleyways. And then we learned very quickly what the ratio was and hand mix the concrete in a little pile and then use these to. Yes. Build. Build the walls and that. But even before then, one of the first things we had to do was the reinforcement steel reinforcement would be delivered in rolls.

0:18:41 - (Linda Habak): Wow.

0:18:42 - (Jenn Sinclair): So we had to cut them into individual pieces and then hand clamp them.

0:18:48 - (Linda Habak): Oh, my God. So you like, physically doing every part of it?

0:18:53 - (Jenn Sinclair): Yes. We had to physically straighten these reinforcement steel before they could be used as rebars. And it just became a running joke, like how bad our, like how unstraight our bars would be compared to, you know, the local builders. And then, yeah, learning how to tie these bars together with literally just metal wires and learning how to use the knots to do all that. So, yeah, it was a real eye opener and experience in construction, basically.

0:19:30 - (Linda Habak): That's amazing.

0:19:31 - (Jenn Sinclair): And construction itself has always been, like, somehow just fascinating to me. So I was in my element. Like, I just loved every part of it. And then also the. The particular family that we were building this house for, they would deliver Us, like, they would have morning tea with us every, every day and just like be there for emotional support and yeah, made really, really good friendships out of that as well.

0:20:00 - (Linda Habak): That's amazing. And so how lovely that you actually got to have a connection with the people you were building the house for.

0:20:06 - (Jenn Sinclair): Yes, exactly. And so three years later, as part of this year long backpacking trip, I took my husband back to the same town for another build. And unfortunately I got sick with food poisoning during this trip. And the family that from the previous build, the family that we built the house for, just, they didn't have anything at all. Like, they don't have much at all. And yet they spent so much money on western medicine and like hand delivered it to where I was staying, where I was like so sick in bed.

0:20:45 - (Jenn Sinclair): And like, that was definitely one memory that will always stick with me. Like just how building isn't just about shaping walls. Like, and it's not. It's way more than. It's way more than just providing shelter. Like, it's giving people dignity and belonging and yeah, like, wish we're helping shape lives by.

0:21:16 - (Linda Habak): Absolutely. It's trans building.

0:21:18 - (Jenn Sinclair): Yeah. And I think, yeah. So I just, I left a piece of heart. My. I've just left my heart there, I think. And so from that experience, it also has led me to just know in my heart that I just don't think I can just work 9 to 5 at an office studio where I'm just turning toilet cubicles around just to, you know, satisfy codes and things that just didn't really seem like they had meaning or soul to it. And, and that.

0:22:00 - (Jenn Sinclair): So that also helped shape my, like, that also helped me make that decision to when. When our software business took off, I took a break from architecture and just helped my husband grow that software business. And that's when I learned a lot about, you know, ato, human resources.

0:22:25 - (Linda Habak): Running a business, right?

0:22:26 - (Jenn Sinclair): Yes. Activity statements, wages. Yeah. All the ins and outs of running businesses and numbers and how important it all is. And. Yeah.

0:22:38 - (Linda Habak): And so when did you go back into property or when, you know, what was that transition like? Because obviously you said you did some renovations.

0:22:47 - (Jenn Sinclair): That's right. So throughout that stage, we'd always just been doing cosmetic renovations on the side. But it wasn't until, I think a fair few years on, maybe like seven years on into our business, we got acquired and I was gonna go and do up another little apartment for an Airbnb, just another side project. But then we thought, hey, you know what? Like, we've just had our bub Bub wasn't even two years old yet.

0:23:20 - (Jenn Sinclair): And we thought, why don't we build a custom home for ourselves instead of just another side project? And, and yeah, so that was when that was how the first, I guess, build. This was the meth and this is the lab. That's right. We knew we wanted to be in the suburb Palm Beach.

0:23:44 - (Linda Habak): Right.

0:23:45 - (Jenn Sinclair): And this particular home, we did drive past it and it didn't really, it wasn't pretty. Basically it had a fence, it was all fenced off and I was like, oh, nah, let's. Didn't really think much about it. And then they had an open home on Australia Day and we just happened to be just at the beach and I just kind of just casually dropped it to my husband. I was like, oh, there is an open home down the road.

0:24:21 - (Jenn Sinclair): I don't think we'll get it, but let's just have a look. And we walked in and it was stripped bare. Like, wow. Back to the frames. Just piles of rubbish everywhere. And like. Yeah, it was literally just the slab frames and the brick shell and that's. It didn't even have any pipe work. It was all, all dug out. And I just thought, oh, this is great, like, let's demolish. Yeah, this. And I saw the potential all of a sudden and we put an offer in and yeah, just eventually, just somehow secured it and we were very excited about it until literally one day out of it going Unconditional.

0:25:07 - (Linda Habak): Yeah, 24 hours.

0:25:10 - (Jenn Sinclair): I found out the history of it.

0:25:12 - (Linda Habak): No.

0:25:13 - (Jenn Sinclair): Yes. And I panicked. It turns out that it was the well known meth house of the suburb and somehow we didn't know about it coming from a different suburb. And. Yeah, so I just was calling the crime scene people because they're the ones who deal with meth testing.

0:25:37 - (Linda Habak): Right.

0:25:40 - (Jenn Sinclair): And very quickly we had tests done also.

0:25:43 - (Linda Habak): You tested the soil?

0:25:44 - (Jenn Sinclair): Yes. Not even the soil, just the frame. They did swabs on the frames, the slab, and apparently it had been sitting there empty for three years already.

0:25:52 - (Linda Habak): Okay.

0:25:53 - (Jenn Sinclair): And very quickly the results came back highly positive. Like it was still just sitting in.

0:26:00 - (Linda Habak): So what did that mean for you? Once you. It went on, it went unconditional.

0:26:06 - (Jenn Sinclair): Yeah, well, I think it was a very unsettling 24 hours trying to order these tests, wondering what we should do, whether we should go ahead with it or not. And then somehow towards the end, I just had peace. I think I, I said to my husband, you know what, like, maybe we could bring a fresh start to the street. And yeah, we did. And because of the Positive meth results. The building certifier allowed us to pull down the framing.

0:26:45 - (Linda Habak): Right. So did you keep the outer shell?

0:26:47 - (Jenn Sinclair): Yeah.

0:26:48 - (Linda Habak): You did. So you just pulled all of the. The framework out.

0:26:51 - (Jenn Sinclair): And that was specific, I guess, because of the. The drug that was present there. We washed the slab, everything, cleaned it all out, and basically, yeah, gave the street a new be. That story, I think, in itself, is also another. Like, as we've been there for about five years now, coming up to six years, and we're still in that home.

0:27:20 - (Linda Habak): That's your family home.

0:27:21 - (Jenn Sinclair): Yeah. And we're still hearing stories of what the guy who used to live there. What. What used to happen? Like, he would set cars on fire on the street.

0:27:33 - (Linda Habak): Wow.

0:27:34 - (Jenn Sinclair): Yeah, just. He was. He just became very paranoid, and he was stripping down the building to, you know, try and sell money and. For his habits and stuff, but he couldn't get kicked out because his mother actually owned it. And he grew up himself in that house. Yeah.

0:27:53 - (Linda Habak): So heavy.

0:27:55 - (Jenn Sinclair): Yeah, heavy. And it just became a really, like, unsettling, like, unsafe street for everyone. Like, I guess the good that came out of it was that the neighbors really got close together. Like, they built a community around this particular property because of the troubles that he would cause. And so when they saw the sold sign, I think they just rejoiced.

0:28:23 - (Linda Habak): And did they come out and have a street party? They must have been so.

0:28:27 - (Jenn Sinclair): Not better than that. But we have had many street parties since then. Like, the whole vibe of it all has just completely changed. Like, it's such a community street. Like, we have so many young families. All the kids just play on the street now, whereas there was no way that was happening back then.

0:28:46 - (Linda Habak): That's amazing.

0:28:47 - (Jenn Sinclair): Yeah.

0:28:48 - (Linda Habak): And so, again, talks speaks to your connection to transforming spaces and homes.

0:28:54 - (Jenn Sinclair): Exactly. Like, it's not even just about a house anymore. Like, it's a whole community that it has transformed.

0:29:02 - (Linda Habak): I love that.

0:29:03 - (Jenn Sinclair): And so, like, I think reflecting on my. My journey and all these experiences, like, I'm realizing how, like, everything is. There's a lot more. Like, even subconsciously, whether you know it or not, like, there's a lot more intention behind it. And, like, things happen for a reason. And. Yeah. It's way more than just building some walls.

0:29:33 - (Linda Habak): Yeah. So on that, at what point did you. I guess, you know, you renovated and you renovated this house. At what point do you transition from. I'm a renovator.

0:29:44 - (Jenn Sinclair): Yeah.

0:29:45 - (Linda Habak): To a property developer. And. And in talking about that, I want to kind of unpack that whole imposter syndrome around that. Yeah, because I know that, you know, we were talking before. There is a bit of imposter syndrome around that. So.

0:30:00 - (Jenn Sinclair): Yes.

0:30:00 - (Linda Habak): So what was that transition point for you where you went? I'm not just renovating anymore. I'm actually developing property.

0:30:08 - (Jenn Sinclair): Yeah. I think the second custom build, which was the layer Villas, the duplex development that I did. Yeah, I think coming into questions about that too.

0:30:20 - (Linda Habak): So.

0:30:20 - (Jenn Sinclair): Yeah, coming into it. So there was also. Straight after we built our first home, Covid hit. And so obviously the world was on a standstill and my husband and I decided to have a second bub. And from that, I had a lot of health problems as soon as I was pregnant. Yeah. My basically, long story short, my body was just trying to reject.

0:30:52 - (Linda Habak): Oh, really? Yeah.

0:30:53 - (Jenn Sinclair): And I couldn't get up the stairs anymore. Like, I was in and out of hospital just from, like, just being so anemic. And I just thought, okay, I just need some iron. And then went to the gp and she was like, wait, your iron level is actually really high. There's no way I'm going to give you an iron infusion. And just. Yeah. The whole series of events that unfolded after that, like, I basically ended up in hospital for.

0:31:25 - (Jenn Sinclair): Yeah, my waters broke at 21 weeks.

0:31:27 - (Linda Habak): Oh, my gosh.

0:31:29 - (Jenn Sinclair): And ended up in hospital for four or five weeks where I couldn't. My health was just rapidly declining to the point where I couldn't even open my eyes and talk. I didn't have breath to talk at night. I wouldn't be able to reach the call button for the nurses. Like, that's how depleted. Yeah, my body, like, I couldn't get up to when they delivered my meals. I would think I was all there in my mind. I'd be thinking, please don't take my meal away.

0:32:05 - (Jenn Sinclair): I will eventually get there because I want to eat. I just physically cannot eat.

0:32:11 - (Linda Habak): Yeah.

0:32:12 - (Jenn Sinclair): Had to have helped going to the bathroom and my heart would just. Yeah, my body would just be in overdrive just to work out what it was. No, unfortunately, they knew what it was to test every test under the sun for autoimmune, for cancer, anything rare. Like, everything came back negative. And yet my blood levels were dropping like crazy.

0:32:40 - (Linda Habak): So hang on, so 21 weeks, your water broke.

0:32:43 - (Jenn Sinclair): Did you. Did.

0:32:44 - (Linda Habak): Did you deliver this baby?

0:32:46 - (Jenn Sinclair): So, no. So they said every day that bub is in, inside is an extra 2% chance of its survival. So, yeah, it really became like, oh, my goodness, is this really happening to me? Like, you hear these stories, you don't think that it will ever happen. To you and, and then I think even to the point like how badly I got medically and. Yeah, so it wasn't that I was, you know, be ordered for bed rest. It was literally that I just could not physically even get up.

0:33:37 - (Jenn Sinclair): And so at 26 weeks they had to get bub out.

0:33:42 - (Linda Habak): We.

0:33:43 - (Jenn Sinclair): I had gotten an infection and we're both at risk of sepsis and. Yeah, so she came out three and a half months early and then we slowly, my body slowly recovered and Yeah, I guess they just, at the end of the day they just put it down to pregnancy related anemia.

0:34:04 - (Linda Habak): Wow.

0:34:05 - (Jenn Sinclair): And.

0:34:05 - (Linda Habak): And bubbies well.

0:34:07 - (Jenn Sinclair): And Bub. Yeah. So we went through her hospital journey for the next four or five months and so she was delivered the week of Christmas and she came home Easter Sunday. And yeah, it was just survival, basically.

0:34:27 - (Linda Habak): Gosh.

0:34:28 - (Jenn Sinclair): Absolutely. Survival.

0:34:29 - (Linda Habak): So when you reflect back on that experience. Experience. What, what do you, what have you learned about yourself going through something because that's traumatic.

0:34:39 - (Jenn Sinclair): It was huge.

0:34:40 - (Linda Habak): And how long ago was that?

0:34:42 - (Jenn Sinclair): She's turning five this Christmas. Yeah, almost five years ago. I have honestly learned, like laying in the hospital bed where I was just physically incapable, but mentally all the hair, all I wanted to do was to just wander aimlessly down the shops, you know, but I couldn't even do that. And I've really learned that life is fragile. Like in a matter of weeks I just became like I couldn't do anything.

0:35:17 - (Jenn Sinclair): And I think that's definitely helped push me into doing what I love, which was after the first build, like I just had so much joy and just knew that I had to get back into building. Like maybe not necessarily sitting in an architecture office designing, but just, I just had to get back into building and being in on a construction site. I think the whole journey of from vision through to like construction and seeing the whole thing finished and seeing how it transformed, transform the community.

0:35:57 - (Jenn Sinclair): Like that whole cycle of it that just brought me so much joy and I just knew I had to get back into it. Like there's no time to waste and that opportunities don't just fall in your lap. You have to go and make your own opportunities. Otherwise like you just. Yeah, tomorrow's. I promised.

0:36:15 - (Linda Habak): Oh my God, Jen, I had no idea. Like, that's. That's amazing, honestly. Thank you for sharing that. Thank you.

0:36:24 - (Jenn Sinclair): I think, like there's still a lot to unpack, I think from that journey.

0:36:29 - (Linda Habak): Yeah, of course.

0:36:30 - (Jenn Sinclair): But.

0:36:31 - (Linda Habak): But do you feel like I have this thought in my head that sometimes when you can go through something difficult and I don't know because, you know, that's very traumatic to almost lose your child and almost lose your life. Can you look back at that experience with some level of gratitude almost for it?

0:36:55 - (Jenn Sinclair): Oh, yeah.

0:36:56 - (Linda Habak): Like, yeah, yeah.

0:36:58 - (Jenn Sinclair): I think everything in life not necessarily happens for a reason, but you can use that.

0:37:08 - (Linda Habak): Yeah.

0:37:08 - (Jenn Sinclair): Like that doesn't define. You don't have to stop there. You can, it's what you do with it and. Yeah.

0:37:19 - (Linda Habak): And amazing things with it. I mean, it's incredible what you've, you've gone on to then achieve. Like your layup project was record breaking.

0:37:30 - (Jenn Sinclair): Yeah.

0:37:31 - (Linda Habak): Dollars. I mean, just let's talk dollars and cents. Yeah. That's incredible. And I, I can see now the fortitude because it, for me it feels like there's a lot of resilience when I look back at, you know, just growing, moving backwards and forwards from Hong Kong to Australia and relearning languages. And that takes resilience and fortitude and then to go through sort of quite a serious life threatening experience.

0:37:56 - (Linda Habak): So.

0:37:57 - (Jenn Sinclair): Yeah.

0:37:57 - (Linda Habak): And property development generally is not for the faint hearted, let's be honest.

0:38:02 - (Jenn Sinclair): No, it's not at all.

0:38:04 - (Linda Habak): So let's talk about layout and let's talk about property development and what advice you might give people.

0:38:13 - (Jenn Sinclair): Yeah.

0:38:13 - (Linda Habak): Who would be listening to this podcast thinking, I'd love to get into it.

0:38:17 - (Jenn Sinclair): Yeah.

0:38:18 - (Linda Habak): But let's talk about layer first. So you've obviously gone through this traumatic experience and then you've gone. Right. There's not a minute to waste. I want to be a property developer.

0:38:28 - (Jenn Sinclair): Yeah.

0:38:28 - (Linda Habak): So talk me through how you got to this next big project.

0:38:32 - (Jenn Sinclair): Yeah. So as soon as I think my body was like, I was feeling a little bit and Bob was still in her little carrier, actually I went and tried to secure my second build. I had a lot of advice from my builder. He. I would be constantly sending him listings and asking for his advice. Like, what do you think of this block? What about this? And this, this particular one? He said, get this Munchen. Yeah, it's prime, like positioned in.

0:39:10 - (Jenn Sinclair): Yeah. Just prime location. Like street. Like street. Like at the end of the street there's a cafe. Shops Co is literally like 500 meters of walk away. The beach is 700 meters walk away. Close enough to the highway for easy access. Like, and it's a really tightly held street. It's, I guess, yeah. 700 meters back. So it's quiet enough. But it's zoned for medium density, which was perfect for what I was wanting to do.

0:39:40 - (Jenn Sinclair): I just knew that I wanted to do a duplex next and we had a really good experience with my builder from our first build and I knew that he does duplex developments normally around the suburb for himself. And I just thought now would be the chance before he retires.

0:40:03 - (Linda Habak): Yeah.

0:40:03 - (Jenn Sinclair): To I guess catch him, do it with him and like learn from him, get his advice on things and. Yeah. So. So I did that. Went to auction one one the property had to get my husband to bring the baby down and my oldest son and yeah. Sign. Sign the papers and yeah. Didn't really waste any time.

0:40:30 - (Linda Habak): You went straight into it.

0:40:31 - (Jenn Sinclair): Straight into it.

0:40:32 - (Linda Habak): So you mentioned that your A team is non negotiable. Can we talk about a. Can we stop here for a moment and talk about the A team? Because that is a concept that in property development circles everyone talks about the A team and I want to know and understand what that means for you because it's harder to. It's actually not easy, as I've experienced, to, to pull together an A team that is with you every project constantly.

0:41:00 - (Linda Habak): So can you just shed light on your experience with developing that A team? Obviously you've got this builder you've worked with.

0:41:06 - (Jenn Sinclair): Yeah, yeah. Like, obviously I'm still very early on in this whole journey. But you can't. You learn as you go. It's trial and error as well. Finding that A team, like, what I've learned is that, okay, it's not necessarily they're the wrong person. It's more so, okay, maybe I didn't communicate well enough or set my expectations clear. I think every, every experience of like, oh, we didn't really gel there.

0:41:41 - (Jenn Sinclair): Which is fine. How do I. Yeah, it's more about how do I. What can I learn from that and how do I take that and do better for next time? But, but it is important because I also, I know that we, we all only know so much. We don't know what we don't know.

0:42:02 - (Linda Habak): That's right.

0:42:02 - (Jenn Sinclair): And say that all the time. Yeah. And it's also going back to the imposter syndrome, like recognizing that you're not going to know everything.

0:42:12 - (Linda Habak): Yeah.

0:42:12 - (Jenn Sinclair): And you know, back in grade four when I realized, oh, I'm not the smartest person in the room, there's always going to be other people smarter than you. So what you need to do is to get around these people who know not necessarily more than you, just like who knows other things that can, you know, fill the circle.

0:42:33 - (Linda Habak): Yeah. The knowledge gaps. Right.

0:42:34 - (Jenn Sinclair): Yeah. That's what you feel. The puzzle together. Let's fill the puzzle. But then in terms of you know, what are the attitudes like, what's their patience like? Yeah, I tend to. To change my mind a lot.

0:42:48 - (Linda Habak): I have been known to do that too, just a little bit.

0:42:51 - (Jenn Sinclair): Yeah. My creative brain with my 100 tabs open in my head. And so what I've learned personally is to find those people who understand that, expect that and rather than seeing you as a hassle, see you as another opportunity that they themselves can learn and grow from. Absolutely. And together we can make a product way better than what would have been if we kind of just stick to the stock standard or just stick to doing the same thing that everyone else is used to seeing.

0:43:30 - (Linda Habak): Yeah, absolutely. So who makes up your A team? What, what are the skill sets that you have?

0:43:37 - (Jenn Sinclair): Oh, definitely my building team, my builder first protocol, his community, his communication and his patience. He always felt like. And that's the reason why I went with him for the first build anyway. He made me feel like he always had the time for me and that none of my ideas are always too wild. He always researches and talks to the trade team like the, the chippies, the subcontractors, and he finds a solution.

0:44:20 - (Jenn Sinclair): And I think that's definitely key. I need people who are problem solvers rather than problem creators.

0:44:28 - (Linda Habak): Yes.

0:44:30 - (Jenn Sinclair): We've had some subcontractors where everything was a problem.

0:44:34 - (Linda Habak): Yeah.

0:44:35 - (Jenn Sinclair): Like everything was a big deal and it just. When it didn't have to be a big deal and it just created more stress for everyone it didn't need.

0:44:47 - (Linda Habak): Absolutely.

0:44:47 - (Jenn Sinclair): Yeah, yeah, yeah. Basically people just who have that patience.

0:44:55 - (Linda Habak): And do you have like a town planner as part of your A team? Conveyancer. Who, so who, that's what.

0:45:01 - (Jenn Sinclair): Conveyancer, town planner, finance advisor. Accountant.

0:45:07 - (Linda Habak): Yes.

0:45:07 - (Jenn Sinclair): Broker.

0:45:08 - (Linda Habak): Yeah.

0:45:09 - (Jenn Sinclair): Builder. They're probably. Yeah. Non negotiables to start with. Sure. Always.

0:45:14 - (Linda Habak): And you always go to the builder first. If you've got a site, that's who you kind of tap on the shoulder and say, give me advice.

0:45:22 - (Jenn Sinclair): I would say town planner.

0:45:23 - (Linda Habak): Town planner, yes.

0:45:25 - (Jenn Sinclair): And also accountant. Straight away.

0:45:30 - (Linda Habak): Yeah. The finances. Do you do your own feasibilities for your projects?

0:45:34 - (Jenn Sinclair): Yeah. Yes. Yeah. High level. And then from then on also need to chat to the accountant because just business structures like.

0:45:43 - (Linda Habak): Absolutely.

0:45:44 - (Jenn Sinclair): Yeah. What you intend and plan to do with it, whether you're going to see sell it or you're going to hold it for a few years. Like that affects whether you set it up in a company or a trust before you purchase. You need to have all that. Those ducks in the row.

0:45:58 - (Linda Habak): Yeah.

0:45:59 - (Jenn Sinclair): And yeah. So I guess for me we're still at the start of the journey. So every project is going to be different. Like, so this particular build right now, with the numbers and the cost of building at the moment, there's just not enough profit.

0:46:18 - (Linda Habak): Yeah, right.

0:46:19 - (Jenn Sinclair): For developers. Really. And slim pickings. Yes, very slim pickings. And so we changed tactics from day dot and we decided we're going to move the family into this.

0:46:32 - (Linda Habak): Okay.

0:46:33 - (Jenn Sinclair): This build.

0:46:33 - (Linda Habak): Yeah. We sell the. The meth lab house.

0:46:36 - (Jenn Sinclair): We will, we will. But, yeah, like, I think knowing your plan and the goal for each particular project is so vital because, like. Yeah. Just setting up the right structure.

0:46:51 - (Linda Habak): Yeah.

0:46:51 - (Jenn Sinclair): From day.and for everyone on your team to know what your intentions are, it's just. Yeah. Just makes difference. So smooth. Like a lot more smooth down the track. Yeah. In terms of, you know, your cup of canes, your.

0:47:08 - (Linda Habak): So if someone, if you had. What would be your advice for someone who was looking to get into property development, do you think doing a course, because there's a lot of people now that you know out there teaching property development education, some better than others.

0:47:25 - (Jenn Sinclair): Yes.

0:47:25 - (Linda Habak): Do you think there's some value in doing that or how would someone start a journey into property development?

0:47:32 - (Jenn Sinclair): Yes, I definitely think that is huge value if you find the right course or mentor and. Yeah, that's right. Or mentor. I think getting your feasibility right is vital. Percentages, numbers. Because with development, like, you make your money on the way in.

0:47:55 - (Linda Habak): Yes, you do.

0:47:56 - (Jenn Sinclair): You can't try and save it later by just throwing some pretty paint on it.

0:48:02 - (Linda Habak): No, that's right.

0:48:03 - (Jenn Sinclair): And it always.

0:48:04 - (Linda Habak): Yeah. It's certainly in my experience, and I do it with my husband and he is an accountant, so I have that. That's not my wheelhouse, but I've had to learn through him and watching how he thinks about things. And the numbers we run.

0:48:21 - (Jenn Sinclair): Yeah.

0:48:23 - (Linda Habak): The, the margins are slim.

0:48:25 - (Jenn Sinclair): Yes.

0:48:26 - (Linda Habak): And we, we have to be so strategic. And I think that's where my skill comes in, in that I'm trying to find. Produce the best product for the target market. That hits the spatial layouts, number one. Because, you know, the, the layouts have got. The floor plans have got to be good and functional and then working out where to spend the money on the aesthetic stuff.

0:48:51 - (Jenn Sinclair): Yes.

0:48:52 - (Linda Habak): And what's that? You know, highest return on your visual investment. So. And I know that's something you do really well. So tell me about how you approach that. Because it is a, it is a tightrope that we're on.

0:49:04 - (Jenn Sinclair): Yes. Yes. I think I, I trusted my instincts.

0:49:10 - (Linda Habak): Yeah.

0:49:11 - (Jenn Sinclair): I, I just saw Gold coast and it is, it's continually growing.

0:49:17 - (Linda Habak): Like it's a huge market.

0:49:19 - (Jenn Sinclair): Yeah. Where we are positioned geographically and the southern end of Gold coast too. Like we're close to the beach, we're close to the hinterland. We have super like easy access to airport and it's very attractive for a lot of interstate buyers who can just live wherever and still commute back to Sydney. You know, door to door. It takes four hours and that's it. So. And it's still very undervalued, I think.

0:49:47 - (Jenn Sinclair): And I just, I just knew the suburb is gentrifying. I did try and you know, use wisdom and sit down. I sat down with some real estate agents while I was working out my floor plan and the main one who had been selling in the suburb for quite some time told me that our target, my target market would be like the retirees. So only do three bedroom and maximize the living space. Which makes sense. But something just didn't sit right and I just, I, I just felt like, no, it's changing over. We have so many young families moving in and also the multi generational living.

0:50:39 - (Linda Habak): Yes.

0:50:40 - (Jenn Sinclair): Which is huge now with the cost of houses. Like so with a lot of respect for what he, his advice was I went ahead with my four bedroom, family friendly two living spaces and somehow I squeezed 290 square meters of living space for each duplex, which is quite big. And. Yeah. And both the buyers for both A and B villas, A and B were young families really. So.

0:51:16 - (Linda Habak): Yeah.

0:51:16 - (Jenn Sinclair): And I think.

0:51:18 - (Linda Habak): So your instincts were right.

0:51:19 - (Jenn Sinclair): Yeah, yeah, yeah. So also, it's also, you know, imposter syndrome. But also like. Yeah. Really trusting your gut as well.

0:51:28 - (Linda Habak): Yeah.

0:51:29 - (Jenn Sinclair): Like I just thought he's like that particular real estate agent. He'd been in the suburb for a while. But I just feel like no, there's a whole new wave coming through. Coming through.

0:51:42 - (Linda Habak): And I guess you represent the target market as well. Yes. So you know it intimately because you are the target market.

0:51:48 - (Jenn Sinclair): True.

0:51:49 - (Linda Habak): So let's talk about imposter syndrome.

0:51:51 - (Jenn Sinclair): Yes.

0:51:52 - (Linda Habak): It's a very male dominated industry.

0:51:55 - (Jenn Sinclair): It is.

0:51:56 - (Linda Habak): How do you feel about being a female in what is traditionally mostly males? And how have you had to learn to adapt and grow and reshape that thinking? Because it is like anything new. Anything.

0:52:13 - (Jenn Sinclair): Yeah, yeah, yeah.

0:52:14 - (Linda Habak): Where you're sort of still early on a journey is hard.

0:52:18 - (Jenn Sinclair): Yes.

0:52:18 - (Linda Habak): So how do you talk yourself through that thinking? And are you, do you still have it, do you think? Because you're into Project 34 now.

0:52:27 - (Jenn Sinclair): Yes. I think I'm thankful that I'VE always had a bit of confidence and I think knowing that I did come from an architecture background and I have had actual architectural practice experience, like, I know a little bit of what I'm talking about. Yeah. And so I think that has really helped me in talking to trades and the other gender and actually being patient with them to. And giving them the benefit of the doubt. Like, it's true. Like, especially on the Gold coast, it's not every day you see a little Asian girl prancing around on a construction site.

0:53:25 - (Linda Habak): Yeah.

0:53:25 - (Jenn Sinclair): But quite strangely, I, I always just. I naturally just feel so at home on a construction site as well.

0:53:34 - (Linda Habak): I love a construction site. I'm never happier. Except when I'm on a construction site.

0:53:38 - (Jenn Sinclair): Yeah. There's something funny.

0:53:40 - (Linda Habak): Really. Yeah. I love the chaos of it because you're creating.

0:53:44 - (Jenn Sinclair): Yeah.

0:53:44 - (Linda Habak): That's that concept of you're building something, you're creating something. It's. There's nothing.

0:53:51 - (Jenn Sinclair): Yeah.

0:53:51 - (Linda Habak): There is no better feeling.

0:53:53 - (Jenn Sinclair): And I think just knowing that things are moving, things are happening. I think when Leia Villas were coming to an end, I was getting, oh, no, what am I, where am I gonna go next? You mean I have to sit at home?

0:54:07 - (Linda Habak): That's very depressing.

0:54:08 - (Jenn Sinclair): Yeah. But yeah, back to having to prove myself, like. Yeah. Very early on, some of the subcontractors, like, I've literally been asked, like, are you even going to be able to build this thing, Jen? And I think maybe it took me back to when I was in year two and getting absolutely that ranking on my report card. I was like, I'll show you.

0:54:36 - (Linda Habak): Yeah, I love it. Love that.

0:54:39 - (Jenn Sinclair): I think a bit of doubt always fills me, feels my drive.

0:54:46 - (Linda Habak): Yeah.

0:54:46 - (Jenn Sinclair): And. And yeah, just not being afraid to speak up, but being wise as well. Like learning, teaching myself industry talk.

0:55:01 - (Linda Habak): Yeah, yeah, absolutely.

0:55:03 - (Jenn Sinclair): Don't just assume and expect. Expect people to think you know what you're talking about if you actually don't. So, yeah, it does help to spend a bit of time doing your own research.

0:55:16 - (Linda Habak): That's right. And also I think being authentic about the fact that, that we don't know everything. We can't possibly know everything. And so I do like to believe that people want to help you generally. You know, I think if you're a good person, you'll attract good people. And. And so I think when you put your hand up and say, look, I actually don't know the answer to this. Can you help me find. Get to the right answer?

0:55:43 - (Linda Habak): The minute you ask for help, I think people are more than willing.

0:55:47 - (Jenn Sinclair): Yeah.

0:55:47 - (Linda Habak): It's when you approach something with arrogance, you know, that's where you get, you know, someone gets their backup. I always say you get more with honey than you do with vinegar.

0:55:57 - (Jenn Sinclair): Yeah.

0:55:57 - (Linda Habak): So it's kind of that.

0:55:59 - (Jenn Sinclair): Yeah, that's great. No, I was going to touch on that too, like recognizing that everyone does have something to bring to the table and that, you know. Yeah, I don't know everything. And it's framing it the right way too, like absolutely. Saying, hey, would you like, I need your help with this. Let's be a team.

0:56:20 - (Linda Habak): That's right.

0:56:21 - (Jenn Sinclair): And together. Let's work something out together. And then that also gives them the ownership as well, rather than, oh, I'm just here to be instructed and told what to do.

0:56:33 - (Linda Habak): Exactly. That's right.

0:56:35 - (Jenn Sinclair): And that I think also forms part of the A team. Like it's people who have that attitude and our team players. Yeah.

0:56:44 - (Linda Habak): Because you are ultimately all working to one goal is to produce a good quality result.

0:56:49 - (Jenn Sinclair): Yeah, that's it. That's it exactly. Yeah.

0:56:52 - (Linda Habak): So what's your message to women who want to step into property development but feel like they lack either experience or capital or like what's the advice on how a female in particular can get started?

0:57:06 - (Jenn Sinclair): Yeah, the one main thing is to get yourself into a community of other women who are doing something similar or have the same interest. I think there is such power to community.

0:57:25 - (Linda Habak): Yeah.

0:57:26 - (Jenn Sinclair): And. And even if like all it takes is just someone else who have the same interest so that you can cry on their shoulder when things aren't happening or because they like, they get it. Like they get the stress that you've had just to get the kids to school and then to rock up to site to find out half your tiles are broken or something like just little things like that in those moments and you just never know where those relationships can take you. Like you might end up going down a joint venture together and. Or you.

0:58:12 - (Jenn Sinclair): Yeah. Just. Just finding that community.

0:58:17 - (Linda Habak): And where, where do you, where do you look for community? Because it is hard, I think property development.

0:58:23 - (Jenn Sinclair): Yes.

0:58:24 - (Linda Habak): Women and I mean there's obviously large corporations, the Mirvacs, et cetera, the lend leases who have lots of women working for them now. So that is definitely increasing. But I'm talking about small scale because that's what I do. Small scale property development. It's actually there's not a lot of women that I, I'm seeking that out and there's not a lot of people around.

0:58:46 - (Jenn Sinclair): I find it, I found it really them to really hard to find. Yeah, it was really Hard to fish for them to find a mentor. Yeah, But I think that's when those. Some of those property development courses can be really handy in getting to know other people who are doing the same thing in the same trajectory. Yeah, I think. Yeah. Some. Some online groups, like Facebook groups, doesn't cost anything to join, and they do regular, like, monthly meetups just at the local pub, where you just get together, share, share what you're doing, and just learn from each other.

0:59:28 - (Jenn Sinclair): Yeah, yeah. And I think in those moments, there's also a lot of joint venture opportunities.

0:59:34 - (Linda Habak): Yes, that's right. Because that's where the capital piece comes in. Because sometimes you can find a site, but, you know, it's too big for. For yourself. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

0:59:43 - (Jenn Sinclair): Definitely come.

0:59:44 - (Linda Habak): Joint ventures are a good opportunity.

0:59:46 - (Jenn Sinclair): Yeah.

0:59:46 - (Linda Habak): I want to. Quickly, before we wrap up, I want to touch on AI.

0:59:51 - (Jenn Sinclair): Oh, yeah.

0:59:52 - (Linda Habak): So tell me your thoughts on AI and because you have been sort of been quoted on your thoughts on AI, so just. Yeah, for our little.

1:00:00 - (Jenn Sinclair): Interesting. My husband is so for it and it gets him so excited. He's always talking about AI and I am too. I am excited. I'm always open to change and how things can help us do better in terms of efficiency and timelines. I personally am still struggling to find any programs, any GPTs that is really helping me with saving time.

1:00:39 - (Linda Habak): I've tried to build GPTs to find sites, to analyze sites, and they do okay, but it's just as easy to kind of go on to, you know, do my process that I would normally do. So, yeah, it's. That's interesting.

1:00:53 - (Jenn Sinclair): I can definitely see the potential in, you know, changing, like doing quick renders in different material changes. I think those are really, like, super helpful if I wanted to change the island bench from this stone to that stone. But even then, I think that's probably from what I've personally seen, I could be wrong. That could be something awesome out there now that I don't know about. But it's. It's really been helpful as well as far as that.

1:01:21 - (Linda Habak): Yeah.

1:01:22 - (Jenn Sinclair): Summer, maybe I'm not prompting. Maybe I'm not using the right prompt.

1:01:25 - (Linda Habak): I think it's. I think it's a practice.

1:01:27 - (Jenn Sinclair): Definitely. Yeah.

1:01:28 - (Linda Habak): My experience with AI is you. You prompting is everything. Getting that prompt correct, giving it as much context and detail and, and. But it. But I don't think it. I mean, you've been quoted to saying it can't replace that human touch. Yeah.

1:01:45 - (Jenn Sinclair): So I'd like to.

1:01:46 - (Linda Habak): That instinct, right? Yeah, that instinct.

1:01:49 - (Jenn Sinclair): And that's. That's the thing, like, I see a lot of potential in terms of it making aesthetics, you know, being, you know, on point, but I don't. I just don't think it can ever replace how a design changes the community or how it'll bring dignity to a family. And it's those. It's those design features that pull on people's heartstrings.

1:02:20 - (Linda Habak): Yeah, absolutely.

1:02:21 - (Jenn Sinclair): That really speaks and sings.

1:02:24 - (Linda Habak): Yeah.

1:02:25 - (Jenn Sinclair): Once people move in, make it a home. Like it's about their soul.

1:02:29 - (Linda Habak): Yeah, absolutely.

1:02:30 - (Jenn Sinclair): Yeah. Life, not just something pretty. Like, it doesn't make any sense if it looks pretty, but it serves no one. That's right.

1:02:39 - (Linda Habak): Yeah. What an amazing conversation. And thank you for being so honest and sharing your journey. It's. Yeah. I feel like it's such a privilege to hear your story. We ask every guest our signature question, which is, what does Build Beautiful mean to you?

1:02:56 - (Jenn Sinclair): Build Beautiful for me, definitely means a lot more than just designing something and shaping walls. It's shaping people's lives. It's giving those elements that pull on people's heartstrings and enrich family's memories and lives rather than just stock standard. It looks pretty, but it serves no function.

1:03:28 - (Linda Habak): Yeah.

1:03:29 - (Jenn Sinclair): Yeah.

1:03:29 - (Linda Habak): Love it. Thank you, Jen.

1:03:32 - (Jenn Sinclair): That was amazing. Thanks for having me.

1:03:34 - (Linda Habak): Such a pleasure. Thank you. Thank you for listening to Build Beautiful. If this conversation resonated with you, I'd love it if you'd follow the show, leave a review, or share it with someone who's building something meaningful. It matters more than you know. Follow us on Instagram. Build Beautiful podcast. Until next time. Keep creating with intention, and together we build beautiful.